Angle Pointing Down Icon An icon shaped like an angle pointing downwards. Miles Schwartz is now the co-founder of his own company, Zūm Rails. Joseph Martorana
- Miles Schwartz says his 2014 internship at Salesforce was derailed by a game of ping-pong.
- Schwartz learned that he prefers work environments where he can step away for a break if he needs it.
- As co-founder of his own company, he says employees should have freedom over how they work.
This essay is based on a transcribed conversation with Miles Schwartz, 33, of Montreal. Schwartz briefly worked at Salesforce as an intern and then co-founded his own company. His employment was verified and what follows has been edited for brevity and clarity.
I was never the best student. Anything with a lot of structure always made me anxious, but I thought I would do well in business when I finished school.
After studying marketing at Concordia University, I started an internship at Salesforce. After six weeks, I was escorted out of the building after playing ping-pong during my lunch break.
The structured environment of a 9-5 job didn’t allow me to thrive. I’ve since co-founded my own company and I don’t monitor employees. It’s important to give them freedom in how they work.
I didn’t enjoy my time at Salesforce
I started my internship at Sales force in September 2014 at its Toronto office.
I didn’t really like the experience. I thought I’d be taking business calls, talking to people, and attending conferences, but as a business development intern, I was mostly doing data entry and finding contacts.
Being a people person, I felt out of my element. I felt like an outcast for not enjoying it. Everyone else seemed to love working there. People weren’t overworked, they were paid adequately, and there were easy paths to advancement.
I felt nostalgic. Going out for a beer after work was part of the culture, but I’m really into health and fitness. I prefer to do my own things after work, like running or going to the gym.
My work schedule was 9 to 5. I remember one time, after staying up really late the day before, I came in at 9:15 am and my manager came up to me and said, “You know work starts at 9?” That made me think that appearance really mattered there.
I got fired after playing ping-pong in the middle of the day.
The internship lasted four months and led to a permanent position in the company.
One day, six weeks later, I was feeling groggy and tired. I had already taken my one-hour lunch break, but later, a more senior colleague asked me if I wanted to play ping-pong in the office with him.
We played for at least 30 minutes and I returned to my desk after an hour. I intended to stay up late that night to make up for lost time.
When I returned, my manager told me that I couldn’t just disappear in the middle of the day, especially as an intern, and that that wasn’t a good look if I wanted to move up in the company.
I explained that I often stayed late to get my work done, but she told me the job was 9 to 5. I felt like Salesforce didn’t want entry-level employees to work on their own schedule or do things their own way.
I told him I didn’t want to be promoted, that I wanted to finish the internship and leave. However, my boss politely told me I shouldn’t stay, so security came, took my computer and badge, and escorted me out of the building.
I didn’t feel bad about it. Why would they waste their energy teaching me about the company if I had no desire to be there?
I thrived in a less structured work environment.
I thrive in an environment where I can listen to my body and step away from work for a while if I need to. In a state of flow, I can work 13 hours a day and everything goes smoothly, but there are days when I just don’t have the energy. That day at Salesforce, I just didn’t have the energy. I wanted to play ping-pong and clear my mind.
This reinforced my belief that I didn’t thrive in a structure, but I began to worry that I wouldn’t find a workplace where I belonged.
I tried another sales job, working for a friend’s uncle, but I only lasted a few weeks because I didn’t like making 90 cold calls a day and getting hung up on.
I took a break from corporate work and started modeling to make money. Over time, I set up meetings with startups, but none seemed like a good fit until I landed an interview with Flinks, a fintech startup, in April 2017. They offered me a position as a business development manager.
I was nervous about failing. The weekend before I started, I asked one of the founders a few questions, including where he wanted me to work and which companies I should initially contact. He replied, “Why the hell are you asking me? You’re in charge.”
As soon as he said that, I knew this was exactly the opportunity I was looking for. The freedom to do whatever I wanted motivated me. At a corporate job, I hated being forced to make 90 cold calls a day, but I started making 200 cold calls a day on my own.
Over time, I started networking and speaking at conferences for the company. After a year, I became the director of sales. During my time there, Flinks became one of the fastest-growing fintech companies in Canada.
I co-founded my own company and I want people to have freedom in the way they work.
I left Flinks in 2019 and co-founded my own company, Zūm Rails.
I work extremely hard, probably close to 50 hours a week, but never to the point of exhaustion.
Nowadays, I can walk my dog in the mountains during the day if I want and answer emails at night when I return.
My co-founder and I don’t police people at Zūm Rails.
Our work schedule is 9 to 5, but I think our culture is more mission-oriented and people are not clock-watching. We hire talented specialists who want to succeed.
We need to have some structure in place to operate in a remote world as a team of 50+ people. For example, sales development reps make sure all call notes are updated in the customer relationship management system, or CRM, before being handed off to an account manager.
But I don’t micromanage how people do their jobs. I remember thinking it was strange when a senior employee asked me if he could go to a doctor’s appointment in the afternoon.
Our employees have the freedom to work from wherever they feel they will perform best, whether that’s a coworking space, an office or their home, as long as the work is done to the expected standard.
Giving people the freedom to work how they want helps increase productivity.
Salesforce did not respond to a request for comment from Business Insider.
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